JL Forums

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If English is not your native language and you have any interest in the quality of your output then DON'T spin the content. I bet you will get more backlinks from increased publication rates.

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Even if "English is your native language", there is no guarantee that the seed article or the spun article will pass muster.

We have 33% rejection from content submitted by US-based writers to whom we outsource.

Regards
SNM

Andrew,

I agree with your last paragraph completely.

I also run a minor article directory that has just about 20,000 registered authors and 100,000 published articles, not all of them of great quality. My experience is very different. There are people who submit good content and those who submit poor content. And the poor ones come from all over.

We also write, rewrite, spin for people in US and UK to people's complete satisfaction at quite respectable rates. At the same time, we outsource work from various countries from time to time.

"Native English speaking writer" is a common expression across the net. We didn't find that factor to be of much consequence.

Regards
SNM

Meg,

I really admire the extent to which you go to do things the best way possible. I have noticed this over the last 2 years. (TBS has had the second anniversary of coming out of beta.)

Being good at anything requires an effort. Nothing is acquired easily. Even a native speaker has to learn his own language well. Maybe it's English here, it applies to every language or, for that matter, everything.

Regards
SNM

meg, how many of those people who SPEAK in the way you described would WRITE in the same manner? How many fewer would write in that way of if their paid occupation was writing?

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snm I think I see a point being missed here.

You told us that over one third of the content provided by the folks you employ who are nominally native English speakers is rejected by you. That is a matter of YOUR choice when making your selections of workers and your choice when you set standards. There are plenty of people who have English as a first language who are barely literate. I'd just not call them writers or employ them as writers.
If a person describes him, or herself as a writer then I'd expect, as a matter of course, fluency in the chosen language and the ability to correct their own work.

A person from China, the Philippines, France etc would be most unlikely to have English as a native tongue. So yes, as you noted, bad writers of English DO come from all over the globe, its something of a given.

We have examples on this very forum of people who want to attain higher standards of content output but who do not have good command of English, but who are likely pretty good at Mandarin, Tagalog, Spanish etc. Those people who read and post here are those whom I am addressing. Your employees whether from the USA or the Indian sub continent are, I am sure, not likely to be reading this forum.
In general though, if posting about this stuff here helps get slightly better content on my sites then I will be a happy man.

By volume there is a clear variance of source of poor content submitted to my sites. The issue is VASTLY in favour of China, Philippines and India. Those places are the origin of most of the world's low quality rewritten and spun continent. If one wanted to one could even make a good stab at particular cities, especially in India.
Look at your own stats on one of your UGC sites, you'll see the same picture.

snm, if you do not find native English to be of much consequence then you might want to consider your hiring policies because you are likely not employing native English speaking writers.

The bottom line is this: as a publisher of user generated content, we reject most submissions, currently around 70%. A decent proportion of those submissions would likely have been accepted had they not been badly spun. Spinning, while a very, very useful tool has, over the years, been the single biggest contributor to quality decline on the internet.

A very large proportion of ALL submitted content that I see comes from, in this order: India, China, Pakistan, Philippines. In many cases, it is clear that the ultimate client is from the USA or UK given the links in the articles.

I have clients who have open access to my sites because they produce consistently good quality work. I don't think any come from anywhere that English is not the first language. I really wish that it were not so.

Andrew,

I would still stand by my position that it is immaterial. Proficiency in language is what matters.
On this very forum, asimbawani is offering writing services that have been found to be Grade A by people like Jorchav. Is he a native English speaker? He will fail that test.

Are you aware of the user stats? What proportion of them come from China, India and Phillipines and others?

In EZA, I am aware that about 33% authors come from India. This data is publicly available on Alexa. EZA has identified typical errors and has a section to help those people. The same situation applies to any other UGC site. Ten times more population and users will generate ten times more error numbers, etc. That will be normal.

If anyone runs a UGC site, he or she cannot wish away this half of the users who come from these countries. EZA thought that the best course is to help them.

The current trend is as more people in those countries access the Internet, the user numbers will explode in the next 2-3 or maybe 5 years. At present just 30% of them could be having internet access and these economies are unaffected by economic downtrend. Besides authors there would be more TBS customers and eBook and WAH product customers and for many things more.


Regards
SNM

Joyce,

That's exactly the point I am trying to make.

Never to make a statement like "If you are not a native speaker of English" do not try writing or spinning.

Or would you say Asim or many other non-native speakers of English who are highly proficient do not come under the "If you are a non-native speaker of English" statement.

By the way, Jorchav has spoken very highly about the quality of Asim's writing service.


Regards
SNM

Joyce,

I do not hold brief for any particular writer. I just gave an example.

There are differences between people with different exposures too. I'd never expect someone other than someone qualified to write on certain subjects. I wouldn't expect anyone other than an American to write about Thanksgiving Day or a host of subjects that are essentially of the American experience. But on a wide range of general subjects that doesn't apply.

I am sure you are aware that American Writers' Association has listed out 10 most common grammar errors that are made all the time in America. So everyone can make grammatical mistakes; it's finally about the care that goes into the writing. (Homonym mistakes like "principal" for "principle", or between "Your" and "You're" are less common among non-native speakers.)

As an article directory owner or as a buyer of articles, as you very well know, we also have to be a bit dispassionate and objective because otherwise we'll not get the exact way a visitor will look at an article. Our personal egos can come in the way.

Anyway, we spent too many words on something which is not exactly relevant in the wider context.

Regards
SNM