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New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question

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New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« on: April 08, 2017, 03:29:00 PM »
I was pleased to hear that JL will be offering a VPS/Proxy service in the near future.

Currently I am just using a dedicated proxy from a proxy provider and have had no problems with them. However, Hostgator is my DNS Host (shared host) and I have now found out that that can be a problem, especially when we want to scale (which is what we all want to do). They max out and shut you down. Josh S found that out and I have seen others on this forum with the same problem.

So my question is this, as I don't know much about VPS services: Can you alleviate the above problem with a VPS? In other words do you get, or can you get, domain hosting and VPS services together? Jon, will your new service provide an answer to this issue of traffic?

I'm sure you [Jon] probably have dozens, or even hundreds of domains running by now. I would be curious to know how you deal with this issue.

I look forward to your reply and news of your new service.

Thanks,
Grant

 

Offline Jonathan Leger

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 05:16:06 AM »
The way we run hundreds of websites is using dedicated servers. What you're using now with Hostgator is shared hosting -- a whole bunch of different people are hosting their domains on the same physical machine (server). With a dedicated server, the server doesn't run anything but your sites. No sharing.

Of course, dedicated servers are expensive. The middle ground option is a VPS, which is your case is VPS hosting, not the same as the VPS we'll be offering where you can login to it and run Windows Server as if it's sitting on your own computer.

VPS hosting gives you more memory, bandwidth, processor usage, etc., and so can run more sites on it.

But yeah, I've read nothing but bad experiences with Hostgator once you actually start to get successful. They only want you to host with them if you're not actually getting any traffic or earning any money, at least on their shared hosting.

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 05:33:08 PM »
Thanks for the comments Jon. I thought you might be interested in this chart I found on Hostgator, with the estimated allowable visitors, either per day, or per month. Of course this is their estimate, to which they have the caveat re: CPC usage at the top and bottom of the chart.

This chart states that all of the "shared plans" are the same from the standpoint of traffic, and that is 7,000 - 8,000 visitors per day. The "Snappy" plans are all VPS plans and the Basic Dedicated Server is their entry level dedicated server. The price for the BDS is $79.00/month for the first term (3 years payment upfront!) then it goes up to $174.00/month after that. Not cheap, that's for sure.

Here's my thinking: I am presently at about 600 visitors per day on my site, so with an estimated allowable of 7,000 - 8,000 visitors/day I should be able to build around 10 more sites/redirects using the hosting plan I presently have. I'll just have to keep a close eye on my numbers.

After that it's kind of a big jump, in terms of price, to a dedicated server. A bit of a "catch-22", that is, trying to justify the cost possibly before fully proving the concept. I would sure like to be able to do this in a more graduated fashion as needed.

It would sure be interesting to hear your comments, or the comments of others and what they are doing.

Is there any chance/opportunity to tie something in with what you are going to do Jon, with your proposed VPS/Proxy service? Or in some other way maybe with whomever you use for your dedicated servers, or a VPS host?

Thanks again,
Grant




Offline kevin.r.butters6298

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 06:40:38 PM »
Hi Grant

CPU is the key....unfortunately the more WP sites you add on shared hosting, even if they get virtually no traffic they are still using large amounts of your CPU....the only other option is to build static html specifically for Pinterest, that way you can have many sites which all load really fast and are not a burden on your CPU.

Personally, I use shared hosting accounts for all my sites, each hosting account has it's own dedicated IP address, my high traffic sites have their own hosting accounts, lower traffic sites i typically have around 10 sites per hosting account, as the sites grow i just move them onto their own hosting accounts.

Doing it all via shared hosting accounts i spend around $4000/year, if i was running all my sites on a dedicated server i would be spending at least double that amount....

The KEY is the hosting supplier, i have tried many of them over the years, but the biggest problem is that as soon as you get a constant trickle of traffic you get your accounts temp suspended....i now use Servikus and they provide me lots of flexibility and great customer service.

Regards
Kevin

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 01:29:46 AM »
The way we run hundreds of websites is using dedicated servers. What you're using now with Hostgator is shared hosting -- a whole bunch of different people are hosting their domains on the same physical machine (server). With a dedicated server, the server doesn't run anything but your sites. No sharing.

Of course, dedicated servers are expensive. The middle ground option is a VPS, which is your case is VPS hosting, not the same as the VPS we'll be offering where you can login to it and run Windows Server as if it's sitting on your own computer.

VPS hosting gives you more memory, bandwidth, processor usage, etc., and so can run more sites on it.

But yeah, I've read nothing but bad experiences with Hostgator once you actually start to get successful. They only want you to host with them if you're not actually getting any traffic or earning any money, at least on their shared hosting.

Sorry for jumping in guys. Jon I use a 'Standard Plan' dedicated package from Hostgator. I took this package last December because the Pinterest traffic shot like a rocket. Since I took this package I haven't used SM2 yet, and I'm waiting for your VPS Service. I don't have much knowledge on this. Do I need another hosting for this?

Thanks
Neevin
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 01:33:50 AM by neevin2016 »

Offline Jonathan Leger

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 02:10:59 PM »
Quote
This chart states that all of the "shared plans" are the same from the standpoint of traffic, and that is 7,000 - 8,000 visitors per day.

Those estimates are a lie. Josh's site was doing well, but not getting 7k visitors a day and they shut it down anyway.

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 02:19:49 PM »
Hi Kevin,

First let me say how much I appreciate your willingness to share information and be helpful to us "greenhorns".....Thank you!

Yes I understand what you are saying about CPU usage. I guess it's generally just difficult to quantify. But your comment regarding WP sites just sitting on a shared hosting plan is a good one.

Can I make a CPU/traffic analogy using a nice spring rain versus a thunder storm. Both produce the same volume of rain but the nice spring rain does it over a broader period of time.

Would it be fair to say that our traffic from SM2 is like the spring rain? Or is there just no real way to judge that?

You mentioned that you have used several hosting providers over the years. Have you any experience with Hostgator? I went onto the Servikus site that you recommended and have asked them some questions. One thing I do like about Hostgator is there service. I can phone them anytime and get help if need be, which has been valuable to me. The other thing is once you have your domains loaded onto there servers, isn't it a hassle to migrate everything to another provider?

What you said about moving your sites around, that is, starting with say 10 sites on a plan and waiting until they grow before moving them to their own plan. Are you using Servikus - Web Hosting - Ultimate plans to do that?

Thanks again Kevin,
Grant


Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 02:21:39 PM »
Thanks for that info Jon. Good to know that.

So it was Hostgator that Josh was using?

Grant

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 02:26:43 PM »
Hi Neevin,

I noticed in your post that you have purchased the "Standard Plan" from Hostgator. I'm pretty sure that is a dedicated Wordpress - Cloud plan and as such it doesn't have a CP Panel. If you want to do Java Redirects you will need to have a CP Panel (unless there is another way to do a redirect).

Regards,
Grant

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 08:04:59 PM »
Hi Neevin,

I noticed in your post that you have purchased the "Standard Plan" from Hostgator. I'm pretty sure that is a dedicated Wordpress - Cloud plan and as such it doesn't have a CP Panel. If you want to do Java Redirects you will need to have a CP Panel (unless there is another way to do a redirect).

Regards,
Grant

Thanks Grant,

It's a very confusing back office compared to the shared one. I had trouble finding the cpanel but through live
chat I somehow was able to access my cpanel (according to them) and all my domains etc. I used Filezilla to upload some php files to some of my domains,that redirects straight to clickbank sales pages. It's working fine at the moment.

But I'm not sure whether it's going to work for Pinterest, do you think it will work? This whole Hosting this is very confusing, and it's very expensive.

Regards
Neevin

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 04:48:35 AM »
Using WordPress these days takes a lot of resources. Gone are the days of it being lightweight. If you start adding plugins that are dynamically adding content, doing tagging, pulling in images from external sources - fun stuff like that, then you need a decent server setup. Shared hosting on a budget just won't do it.

I don't think that HG are lying, but it'd be helpful if they were to separate out WP and other similar CMS sites from static HTML sites as the requirements are hugely different!
Users would be well served to follow HG's strong advice to use a good caching plugin but also to be aware that not all WP setups can work comfortably with a cache. Caching enables a site to work with much lower resource needs - at best, not far from a static site and, often, much faster page loads than WP normally can manage on a shared setup.

I use Dolphin and, in the past, Joomla. Users have the same complaints about these two platforms on shared hosting and for the same reasons.

Hostgator are great though if you are running a business dependent upon your sites because they offer an easy and inexpensive upgrade route from shared hosting through to dedicated servers. They handle the upgrade for clients such that the transfers are pretty much hands free and invisible to both the site owner and to visitors. That means one can start out with budget hosting and, as one's needs increase, move up to dedicated via VPS.

I used a dedicated server with them for years, after making a similar progression. I only changed over when I went to a provider who specialised in Dolphin setups, but there was no saving in money. :) Sadly HG do not have much experience with Dolphin and this somewhat forced the issue. I regarded the cost, around $175 per month as a very low cost business expense and was very happy with the level of service until I found myself at the limit of their expertise with the arcana of Dolphin. By the way, there are people providing dedicated hosting at lower cost than HG but the shortcuts imposed by the lower costs are likely to provide a significant stumbling block for many people as the lower costs mean limitations to service level and quality, compromises on REAL server specs and the use of lower cost control panels.

Of course one should, ideally, monitor one's own resource usage but many do not. HG are pretty good at notifying account holders when there are resource issues; it is in their own best interests to do so as this is an ideal opportunity to sell an upgrade and, over they years, I have learned to follow the host's suggestions about upgrade needs!

Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 11:29:50 AM »
Just an excellent post Andrew! Thanks for taking the time to provide such in-depth info. Your comments regarding shared hosting, and HG in particular, are especially helpful as they speak directly to where I'm currently at. It's encouraging to find that you have used them and were happy with them. I too find their service to be very good, at least from the personnel side. I like that I can phone them anytime and get walked through whatever it is I'm calling about.

My focus, over the last few years, has been in a different area of internet marketing so I'm feeling my way around a little with this. However, I can definitely see the potential, but as a marketer from away back, I'm not afraid to be patient and build this income stream in a slow and steady fashion.

I started over Christmas building a site, and now have an average of 750 sessions per day to that site. It's a seasonal site and not very "main stream" as far as niches go, but I am making a little money and more importantly I am proving the concept. Getting the traffic was my main goal, now I just have to keep making adjustments to bring up my conversion ratio.

Of course, once the concept is proven, and we are making some money, it's then about scaling. That's why I feel this issue of hosting and traffic is so important. What's the point of having the fastest car on the road, when the speed limit is regulated to 60 mph (or here in Canada 100 kmph). And I want to be making money before I go crazy with my hosting needs, as that can get very expensive. Like everyone else, I don't mind spending the money if I am getting a decent return. So having the ability to grow steadily with hosting is what I see as ideal.

By the way Andrew, I am using WP and one of Thrive Themes themes, and I have installed Comet Cache. I also have a text editor plugin from Thrive that I absolutely love, but other than that I will do my best to trim off any others that could be slowing me down.

I'm pleased to see the likes of Jon, Kevin and Andrew wading in on this topic and sharing their vast expertise with the rest of us. I know I find it very helpful, and I hope that Neevin (who also posted a question in this thread) also finds the comments useful.

We have a great group on this forum!!

Thanks,
Grant


Offline Jonathan Leger

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 12:44:50 PM »
Andrew is much more forgiving of Hostgator than I am. Given the massive popularity of Wordpress, to me Hostgator's posting of "7,000 visitors" without qualifying that based on the type of CMS you're using is very disingenuous. They know that most people will be using Wordpress, yet they fail to disclose the "gotcha". Why? Because they want to sell more hosting and then force you to upgrade after they shut down your account for going over the CPU threshold.

I don't like Hostgator. Never had good experience with them. I'm just one person, so take my opinion as you will, and I respect Andrew's positions. So there. :)

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2017, 03:25:14 PM »
Andrew is much more forgiving of Hostgator than I am. Given the massive popularity of Wordpress, to me Hostgator's posting of "7,000 visitors" without qualifying that based on the type of CMS you're using is very disingenuous. They know that most people will be using Wordpress, yet they fail to disclose the "gotcha". Why? Because they want to sell more hosting and then force you to upgrade after they shut down your account for going over the CPU threshold.

I don't like Hostgator. Never had good experience with them. I'm just one person, so take my opinion as you will, and I respect Andrew's positions. So there. :)

Jon's comments directly relate to my own thoughts....their claims of traffic potential are complete bullshit, and they will kill your account way before you reach those dizzying heights!.

Offline kevin.r.butters6298

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Re: New Proxy/VPS Service Coming Soon Question
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2017, 03:44:16 PM »
Yes I understand what you are saying about CPU usage. I guess it's generally just difficult to quantify. But your comment regarding WP sites just sitting on a shared hosting plan is a good one. - the other comment I would make is that for every REAL visitor to your CPU resource hungry site you also get up to 10x as many bots & spiders

Can I make a CPU/traffic analogy using a nice spring rain versus a thunder storm. Both produce the same volume of rain but the nice spring rain does it over a broader period of time. Would it be fair to say that our traffic from SM2 is like the spring rain? Or is there just no real way to judge that? - very difficult to predict ahead of getting started, I started two brand new sites both in mainstream niches within two weeks of one another around 6 weeks ago, one of them now gets 2k+ daily visitors, the other only gets 100-125 daily visitors, there is no logic as to why this happens, it just happens VERY regularly

You mentioned that you have used several hosting providers over the years. Have you any experience with Hostgator? - yes, years ago before they sold out to a much larger company(very good back then), I did try them again since their takeover, and mirror JL's comments 100% about them since then.

 I went onto the Servikus site that you recommended and have asked them some questions.  The other thing is once you have your domains loaded onto there servers, isn't it a hassle to migrate everything to another provider? - all GOOD hosting companies today provide a free migration service(or worse case scenario a low cost option), you should not let that hold you back, that is how the bad hosting companies used to trap you ;)

What you said about moving your sites around, that is, starting with say 10 sites on a plan and waiting until they grow before moving them to their own plan. Are you using Servikus - Web Hosting - Ultimate plans to do that? - yes, I keep them on their LiteSpeed Hosting Plans initially, then move them onto the Ultimate Hosting Plans as they warrant more space to maintain growth....they are very flexible, you can also get a very good deal with them, I pay just over $100/year incl dedi IP's per Litespeed account & just over $150/year for SSD Ultimate Plans. If you are chatting with them use my name as a reference, it should help you get very similar deals to mine ;)

Answered all your main points ahead in red Grant.